The Liberty Bell Expertease

We are so excited for our podcast tonight to interview Danno Sullivan, who is an expert in the Liberty Bell. Hey, don't give me any cracks about the Liberty Bell. You're listening to Expertise, spelled wrong, the podcast where the world's most expert experts discuss their areas of expertise expertly. Expert comedy writer Clare Sera and expert comedy writer Danno Sullivan bring their expertise to other unrelated expertises. It's my goodness me, audience. Pleased as punch out there. I can feel your punch being pleased. We are so excited for our podcast tonight to interview Danno Sullivan, who is an expert in the history, the lore, the myth, the truths, the behind the scenes of the Liberty Bell.

I'll tell you what I'm worried about, Clare. Coming on a podcast like this, I love liberty. Yes. I love bells. And I will not accept any mockery from a little podcast that's known for its mockery of serious topics. But Danno, you must admit, without mocking, it's a very tropey kind of the big bell, let freedom ring from the Liberty Bell. I mean, it's not a subtle piece of Americana. America is not a subtle place, Clare. America is a place of proud people and our symbols need to be big and our symbols need to be proud. Think of the American turkey. Yes.

What do we eat every Thanksgiving, Clare? It's not a sparrow. It's not a wren. Danno, you're making a great point. America is big. Its appetites are big. Its need for spectacle is big. It likes its metaphors. Big. Big. Thank you. You know, one of the biggest things about the Liberty Bell, Clare, and this is one of my favorite bits of trivia, if I can share it with you. Most people don't realize that the Liberty Bell was originally from the foundry in Belfast, Ireland, where they made bells so fast you can't even believe it. I did not even know that that's where the town Belfast got its name from making bells fast.

So the Liberty Bell sits in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The friendly city of brotherly love. Friendly brotherly love. Not just brotherly love. That's very American right there. It can't just be the city of brotherly love. You have to add another adjective of Americans piling one thing on top of another piled thing. That's like an American club sandwich, for example. Exactly. Where things are just piled on top of one another. But what it amounts to, Clare, is an intermingling of the meats and cheeses that, again, represents the melting pot. In fact, the fondue pot.

Now you are coming down to the most controversial part of your pamphlet. When the Founding Fathers were accused of using the bell when it first arrived as a giant fondue pot for some of their swing and bachelor parties that they were well known for as they were crafting that letter of independence. They would just invert that bell and use the Great Hollow pot style. Right. But it was not really made for that, was it? No. And I am a little reluctant to share this because I am a proud American and I'm proud of great things we have in America. But it was overheating over a strong fire to melt the Swiss cheese for the fondue that caused the crack in the first place.

That's why when we ring out liberty, proud and true, you still get a little waft of old cheese. But one of the biggest controversies is that they used Swiss instead of, you know, Wisconsin. Why wouldn't they have used Wisconsin cheese? Wisconsin was not one of the 13 colonies, Clare. There was no Wisconsin. There could have been no Wisconsin cheese. You know, that sounds like an excuse to me to use, you know... History? Yes. To use history to account for a historical inaccuracy. That's the way history works, Clare. You're either right or you're wrong. And if you're wrong, you're not American.

So there they are, those founding fathers gathered around the Liberty Bell turned upside down and full of Swiss cheese. Yeah, the fondue fathers, as they're sometimes quaintly known. And dipping their breads and... Clare, I can tell that you're a curious interlocutor. You have lots of interlocutions about this topic. I would like to invite you to come on down to our historical reenactment scenarios. We get together every two weeks right there in downtown Philadelphia. We're sponsored by Larry's Friendly Fillies, which is a sandwich shop. They provide the cheese. We provide the pot. I would love to see how it hits you when you first get that waft of pure American cheese coming out of the cradle of liberty itself.

You need a big fork and a big piece of bread, but you will be big happy when you're done. Well, Clare, do you have a pair of knee breeches? I do. Have you? Why? I'm curious. I like to go fly fishing. So you have knee breeches and waders. Yes. So just leave your waders at home, wear your knee breeches, and come on down. You'd be very welcome. You'd have to dress as a man. No women allowed. Oh, okay. And I'm not saying that's right. I'm saying that's historically accurate. Right. That does seem to be what you get away with a little bit. Yeah, but that's the point of the... It's historical reenactment.

And it would not be a reenactment if we allowed women to participate. So you have been accused of creating this reenactment society as a way of just keeping women out of a club that... when you meet on Sunday afternoons. Clare, let me just ask a couple of questions. Are you a woman? I am a woman. Yeah, and I am a man. Have you ever known men to want to keep women away? Am I right, fellas? Boys? Jeff? Roger? Mikey? Is your reenactment society with you right now? Yeah. Clare, we love reenactment so much. Please tell me you're not going to reenact this podcast after we've finished recording it.

I did want to invite you to the podcast reenactment society that I'm a part of. And what we do is we get together after any member of our other reenactment society is on a podcast, and we reenact their podcast. It's a wonderful society because people are so supportive of each other. Most of the people in the group have a podcast, so we're able to just keep this loop going almost ad infinitum. Oh, wait, wait, wait. Roger, what's that? Roger's saying we're able to keep this loop going almost ad infinitum right now. He just reenacted what you said. Yeah, yeah, hang on. Oh, wait, that's Charles.

Charles is... he's saying we can almost keep this loop going ad infinitum right now. Hang on, hey, Sarah, what the hell is Sarah doing? Roger, Sarah, out, out, out. Unless you've got some mead, Sarah, unless you've got some mead. Sorry. Wow, that Sarah is a bit of a manic pixie, I can imagine. So this reenactment society that you have created... Now, do you mean the American Cradle of Liberty reenactment society or the podcast reenactment society? Well, I did not realize that you had branched out from the American reenactment society. Now, I thought that your reenactors had a modicum of dignity and stuck to historical facts, which is what allowed you to exclude women from your group.

Sure, sure, we're very proud of our historical accuracy. It also, if you don't mind me saying, allows you to flip the Liberty Bell up, melt some cheese and have some beer every Sunday afternoon at the cost of taxpayers because you claim this is... Yes, yes, it's a legitimate function of government, is what we say, is what we... not what we say, but what we know to be true, Claire. Those who cannot remember the past... What's that ex... Roger? Those who cannot remember the past are what? Bound to repeat it ad infinitum. Those who cannot remember the past, Claire, are doomed to repeat it.

Right. That's why I feel that it's vital for us to reenact whenever possible and as accurately as possible anything that has happened in the past to continuously be reminding the people of the present of the things that happened in the past. Now, I guess, call me lucky that I happen to be part of the reenactment group that gets beer and cheese once a week. I'm not sure I would call it lucky so much as wily. That's casting an aspersion on it, Claire. You're implying that this is done with forethought for our own benefit. I grant you that the big screen TV and the NFL games while we're...

He's a jolly good fellow, for he's a jolly good fellow, for he's a jolly good fellow... Does seem like a benefit, but it's incidental. That's not the point. It's also not really accurate to history, as you seem very fond to point out. We keep that all completely out of view. We do have a big screen TV, but nobody can see it. Well, that's the point. Nobody can even see your reenactment anymore. You have closed it off to say that you want to create what actually happened in the room, and now nobody can actually see what's happening in the room when you and Charles and Ralph and not Sarah are in there partying.

It sounds a little bit like a fraternity. Claire, you say that nobody can see it, but I can tell you that on any given week there are 100 to 200 men in knee breeches who can all see each other. Does that not satisfy your prurient interests? It's not so much prurient as... This is a function of government. This is supposed to be teaching the next generation what happened on that fateful day when the Liberty Bell cracked. Yet instead, you spend so much money welding it together every Saturday night so that on a Sunday you can crack it with hot Swiss cheese.

Wouldn't you agree with me that it's just as important for future generations to understand how we are abusing the system today in the name of providing a realistic window into yesterday? If there is no malfeasance today for people to learn from, how will people learn? I think it's up to us to use the past as a stepping stone to the future and create something untoward now. I see that you have applied for other reenactments. The Civil War reenactment group is very active and huge. You know, 600,000 soldiers were killed in the American Civil War. America's bloodiest battle to date.

And finding that many people who are willing to lay down their lives in the name of American reenactment has been really hard. So our Civil War reenactment is taking much, much longer than the actual Civil War because we're having to divide it down into weekend-long sections. Dano, I don't feel like I see this very often, but the reenactment society is reenacting happy times or sweet victories, like the first marriage in America. How about reenacting the first wedding that happened in the 13 colonies? Something that we can get happy about. Sure, yeah. You know, any member of our society is welcome to reenact anything that they choose.

We have a group working on prohibition right now. How would you reenact prohibition? They don't drink. They completely don't drink. And it's amazing to see. They're so realistic at not drinking. I mean, you go in and you think, I am seeing someone not drinking right now. It's like prohibition right there before your eyes. Okay, I mean, you're charging for this. You're charging the public to come in and watch people in a bar not drink. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, to each their own. And if you're getting an audience for that, good on you. I'm just not sure that it's really a legitimate form of entertainment.

Well, it's not meant to be entertainment, Claire. It's meant to be historical and educational. And, you know, for those who are involved in the prohibition reenactment, I think there's a little bit of a moral rectitude to it as well. You know, that's not for everybody, but they're free to make that choice for themselves, or at least to pretend to in the name of reenactment. Although, I mean, you know, not to pick on this one in particular, but couldn't you go out any night with friends and not drink, and then that's reenacting the prohibition? That's using your noggin, Claire.

Yeah, write that up. See if you can get a grant. Oh, that's what this is about. You are getting government grants. See, I knew that this is where this was going. I asked you to treat these ideas with respect and the dignity that they deserve in the name of American history. And you have flipped it right around to make it seem small-minded, to make it seem like money-rubbing, and to make it seem like, you know, we're out to get something from the souteats of the government. Well, I would argue that's the most American reenactment of all. Before we sign off, I feel like I've been a little bit negative towards your business.

Yes, yes. Everyone here is nodding in agreement with me. Tim, Larry, David. Charles, Michael, Stanley, Rupert, Val. I do want to say that I did actually participate in one of your reenactments before we did this podcast. Oh, which one did you choose? It was the Midnight Ride of Paul Revere. That is one of my favorites. And it was at midnight, which was very exciting. Not a light in the city. Not even one if by land or two if by sea? There were two. There were only those two. But it was pitch black and quite dangerous for the crowds that had, you know, lined the road quietly to watch the Midnight Ride.

And then Paul Revere. You see these two lights in the distance. Very exciting. Thrilling. Thrilling, I'm going to tell you. Thrilling. You see the two lights jiggling on a horse. Was the horse in the old church tower? Was that what you were seeing? Historically, the lights, of course, were in the church tower, the old North Church. Well, this fellow was delivering the lights. This was, he came riding by. He was holding two lights. He had his head tucked under his arm. Yes. Claire, I was just thinking you might be on the Headless Horseman tour. Oh. Yes. So there's the Washington Irving tour where the Headless Horseman comes through.

And there's the Washington Heights tour where Paul Revere comes through. Oh, maybe they crossed paths on this. It sounds like there was a mix-up because the Headless Horseman carries one lantern and Paul Revere carries two. Well, there were two lanterns. There was one head tucked under an arm. There was a woman just screaming, screaming, and screaming. Oh, that's our Haunted Castles of England tour. I don't know how, what is going on. There was some sort of crazy mix-up that night. That's Anne Boleyn that you're hearing there. It sounded like Anne Boleyn. Claire, I'm guessing what happened here is, you know, we have the prohibition reenactors.

We also have the anti-prohibition reenactors who, of a weekend, they knock back the hard liquor like nobody's business. The speakeasy reenactments. And I'm guessing the speakeasy people somehow got mixed up with the Paul Revere, the Washington Irvings, and the Anne Boleyns. Once the liquor starts flowing, you know, everybody can play everybody. So Paul Revere on some weekends plays the part of Anne Boleyn some nights. And I'm guessing there was just a big drunken mix-up. And I don't know if that was entertainment for you or if maybe I could, you know, make a few calls and see about getting your money back for you.

You know what, Dan? I'm going to tell you, I don't want my money back from that night. It was spectacular. And I walked away from there saying, I wish that's what history had been. I wish that had been the history of our country. But in its own way, Claire, that is the history of our country. It's that crazy jambalaya of this and that. The mix-up of right and wrong. We are going to put into our show notes, folks can order an embroidered jambalaya of this and that. Done in red, white, and blue. Yes, our Betsy Ross reenactor does those so readily available. I was going to say at the cost of a pretty penny, but of course, in those days, it was pretty shilling.

Right. And the pennies were not so pretty back in that day. Let's be honest. They were not mass produced like they are today. Each one, each penny, handmade, Claire. I'd like to see a reenactment of that. Let me just check real quick. Claire, our hand coin manufacturing reenactment meetings are on Tuesdays. First Tuesdays of the month. And good news, ladies allowed. Well, I'm going to tell you, this interview itself has been a winding road, like the founding of this great country. Mixing pot of misogyny, inaccurate historical accuracy that is what this country is.

A mixed up jambalaya. God bless the reenactors of America. The Expertise, spelled wrong, podcast is free and like the Amish, all are welcome. Be sure to sign up for our email announcements at funnypodcast.co and follow us in your favorite podcast app. Like the expert podcast listener we know you are. Claire, I tell you, our next event is the reenactment of this podcast. I hope you can tune in for that. Sarah's going to portray you and I think, is it Ronald? Ronald's portraying me. So it should be Ronald. He does a great me. Oh, that's great. Can we hear a little bit of Ronald doing you?

Ronald, she wants you. Hi, this is Ronald. Ronald does a great me.